This episode delves into working remotely, and how Two Story Robot responded to the pandemic. Jonathan designed his company as a remote-first technology company and there was a lot of benefit to this when COVID hit. They found themselves in a unique position, ready for remote work but still had to deal with the pandemic. At the forefront of remote work they had a lot of knowledge to share, and we dig into this.

Check out the blog post on this topic they published.

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Jonathan: [00:00:00] Hey, just a heads up. This episode of fixing faxes does have a couple of swear words in it. They're not like the big swear words, just some of the lower order swear words. Um, but they're still swear words. Anyways, if that matters to you. Maybe skip this one.

very few bongs last time that was better,

uh,

Angela: [00:00:20] was very, uh, trying very hard, not to whack anything on my

Jonathan: [00:00:26] I had, I had four more far more bongs, uh, in mine. I'm not sure. Cause I've moved my mic over here. I'm not used to it. I want a different boom. Uh, Justin Jackson posted a picture of him and I was like, what's that thing? It's cool. It doesn't have it's. It's like all the, all the mechanisms are inside the arm.

It looks very, very cool. Um, it's not that expensive, but it doesn't, it's not going to help me cause it's not, it's not longer. I want something longer.

Angela: [00:00:51] Oh, you want like a,

like a professional

Jonathan: [00:00:55] yeah. I want something to come down from the roof and maybe on like a track that I can just like short

slide it around and it can help me in and out of, in another of the bath. Um, that sounds awesome.

Intro [00:01:09]

You're listening to Fixing Faxes, a podcast on the journey of building a digital health startup with your host, Jonathan Bowers.

Angela: [00:01:17] And myself Angela Hapke. So Nora got to sent home with a book on Friday.

Jonathan: [00:01:25] I thought you were,

Angela: [00:01:27] Just got sent home from

Jonathan: [00:01:28] She got sent home with a cold.

Angela: [00:01:30] Nope. She got sent home with this book on, on Friday and I found it in her, in her, her bag that she comes home with and I said, Oh Brad, I think Nora stole a book from daycare and he goes, Oh, Nope.

Uh, actually her daycare, uh, teachers sent it home specifically for her. Uh, for us to read to her because of it's all about a froggy, but needs to share his pond.

Jonathan: [00:01:58] subtle hint.

Angela: [00:01:59] no. It was nothing subtle about it. She was very clear. So it's September there is, there's a big transition change in daycare. Lots of new kids starting Nora is one of the older kids now at the right, the old age of three. And, um, It's having a wee bit of trouble with the new children and sharing her, sharing her pond, uh, including friends and space. So Brad reads the book to Nora, uh, and I'm laying with her, she's going to sleep last night. And I say, Oh, did you know, did daddy read you a book tonight? Yeah. Nora is it about a froggy who share a pond. And I was like, Oh, well that sounds like a really good book. She's kind of silent. And she goes, there are a lot of new kids at daycare and I was like, yeah.

And sh this is what she says. I'm not prepared for that. Yeah.

Jonathan: [00:03:01] She's Oh, she's three. So she she has not only the self awareness to know that she's not prepared, but also understands that this book has been sent home to help her cope with that and create some strategies to share.

Angela: [00:03:16] Oh, never underestimate your children.

Jonathan: [00:03:23] That's so funny.

Angela: [00:03:24] Anyway, I had to tell you that story because it was just too adorable.

Jonathan: [00:03:28] I love that.

Angela: [00:03:30] I not prepared for that.

Okay.

Jonathan: [00:03:34] that's a big word prepared.

Angela: [00:03:36] I know she says "p-pared", but yeah. No. I know,

Remote Work [00:03:46] 

Yeah. So today we wanted to talk a little bit about, um, working remotely. This is a huge topic right now, uh, with, uh, COVID and a lot people working remotely, a lot of people that have never worked remotely are now working remotely. A lot of people that have worked remotely or some, what worked remotely are now a hundred percent working remotely and just all the, the spectrum of, of working at home to working in the office.

And Two Story Robot does a really. Um, a really cool way of, of handling remote work, um, because you guys have done it by design right from the get go almost. And I just, I thought it'd be really cool to talk about that.

Jonathan: [00:04:31] Thank you. Yeah. Um, It is by design, but it doesn't account for a pandemic.

Angela: [00:04:41] Fair enough.

Jonathan: [00:04:42] Like we, we have been, we have been remote pretty much from the beginning. I mean, most of us actually do work out of, out of one office. Um, there was six of us that have one office and then a few sort of scattered about everywhere.

Um, but we've always, we've always taken the stance that if you can do your work remotely, then the work in the office will just benefit from that. And that, that, that has proven true. Like, we were very good at documenting. We're very good at communicating digitally. Um, we don't have to have meetings and when we do have, uh, zoom calls, they tend to be, um, Better than the average zoom call that I've attended for other teams, just because we're used to it, we understand the process behind it and the empathize with everyone.

part of it came from the MBA program, actually.

Yeah. Cause I did what we did. We both did the MBA at Sauder and I was, uh, although we had to go down for the actual courses and the classwork. A lot of the project work happened remotely. And so, um, I got to experience both, uh, working with a team that was physically close to each other so they could meet.

And then I was the remote one and then occasionally there was like, all the remote people were put on a team and we would work remotely. Those meetings always went way better.

Angela: [00:05:58] Yes. I found the same thing. I usually got put on the PR on the team with all the remote people also. and let's also be clear that you didn't just finish your MBA. That is over it's over 10 years ago now, right?

Jonathan: [00:06:12] uh, 2010, 2011. About 10 years

Angela: [00:06:15] So about 10 years ago. So even then, so 10 years ago, remote work was kind of a thing, but not really a thing. And so, um, yeah, you PR you probably learned a ton. So let's unpack a little bit about what you were talking about. You talked about meetings remotely, but you also talked about the, um, tools that you guys use to manage work.

Jonathan: [00:06:36] Yeah, so we are very heavily documentation first. so we, we have sometimes scared off some clients just by the pure volume of documentation that we can some occasionally create. Um, So we use a tool called Notion to basically write almost everything down, everything from meeting notes, um, planning, documents, um, some of our tasks go in there in any of our internal documentation.

We do all of our blog writing in Notion first. yeah, it's just like documentation first. We, we don't use email.

Angela: [00:07:13] Like at all,

Jonathan: [00:07:14] I mean, we have email accounts, but we don't use them.

Angela: [00:07:16] between each other, between team members, you don't use them at

Jonathan: [00:07:18] Nope. The only thing we would use email for is like for a legal, like for legal paper trail. Um, and, and most of the emails, most of the emails we send are to external people.

Angela: [00:07:29] So as a, as a client of Two Story Robot, um, do you guys use Slack though for a lot of messages back and forth? Like, is that kind of

Jonathan: [00:07:37] Yeah. The Slack, as a, as an instant messaging or messaging platform has replaced the more ephemeral conversations. Like if I were to walk up to your desk and say, Hey, what do you think about this? Um, we try not to do that. We do that in Slack, and we do that in a, in a way that allows everyone to be able to see it.

So sometimes it can get a bit noisy because there's a lot of discussion going on and we divide all the conversations into different channels. So there's a channel there's actually two channels for Clinnect one internally, which you don't get to see.

Angela: [00:08:12] see

Jonathan: [00:08:13] yeah, we use the internal, the internal one, just talk about internal stuff and then, but most of the conversations happen on the external channel . Every one of our projects has their own channel and we have all the discussions in there and we try to discuss things in the open.

So if you have a question, we just say, Hey, uh, does anybody have an answer to this? Or if you just happen to come up with a solution to something you might say, Oh, Hey, I was thinking about this and I've I've I, you know, I came up with this solution here and that's really handy because, um, Unlike when you come up to my desk and bother me one bother me, interrupt me and discuss something with me.

All that discussion we have is, is lost.

Like we don't no one else. Yeah. No one else gets to benefit from that. But if we have that discussion on Slack in the open one, although Slack, I don't think is a great tool for this. It's less interrupting. I need to have the discipline in order to like, resist that interruption, but it's also visible

for

everyone. to see.

Angela: [00:09:06] Yep. Um, I can see why, if you come from an industry or you're a client that isn't maybe been exposed to this level of transparency and this level of, um, open discussion and things like that. Working with working with you guys, as you said, it might be a little bit like it might, it might feel a little vulnerable at first because everything is out in the open.

And I know for me, when we started on, um, on, uh, an external Slack channel with you guys, uh, I wasn't overly comfortable with it. I was probably still messaged like, you know, texting you and things like that, or stopping by your desk. Uh, but since, since COVID, uh, that that's not really an option anymore is to just stop by your desk.

So. I, uh, I've found more comfort in it and actually embraced it a little bit more too. Yeah. Just because I am able to go back and take a look at something or find something thing that we had, you know, talked about and what exactly did we say about that? Or what did we come up with the wording for that, or et cetera, et cetera.

I have found it to be helpful.

Jonathan: [00:10:14] Yay. That's. Some of w you know, why we want to talk about this a little bit is that we, we quickly realized at the beginning of the pandemic, cause we did, we did this workshop. Um, once we went remote and then a few days later, we saw lots of other teams starting to go remote, uh, just locally, um, We thought, Oh, maybe this is an opportunity to share some of our knowledge with some folks.

And so we did a workshop that was well attended. We had like 70, I think, 75 people,

Angela: [00:10:42] Wow. You guys had 75 people for that workshop. I didn't realize

Jonathan: [00:10:45] I think I know 75 people registered. I don't think all 75 people showed up. Um, I think by the, I know at one point there was like 50 or 60 people there, um, watching or consuming it. And then, um, they sort of trailed off at that towards the end, cause it was an hour long.

but I was surprised at the level at which a lot of teams were operating in terms of what remote meant for them.

Angela: [00:11:09] Explain that, what do you mean by that?

Remote is not the office but via Zoom [00:11:10]

Jonathan: [00:11:10] Um, they were, a lot of teams were basically just trying to replicate the office via video. And it was, almost offensive that, that, yeah, like it was right. Like one team, um, there, they just expected you to open up a zoom call

Angela: [00:11:32] Oh, just

to, just to have a camera at you the

Jonathan: [00:11:37] well, who knows what the intent was behind it, but,

uh, but certainly like certainly a feeling was like, why do you need to see me? And like this, that's not how that's not even how an office works. Like I don't sit face to face with all of my colleagues. And, um, we, we worked with another client, um, and they, they did remote work in us in this strange way where we all sat around a zoom call and watched somebody type into a document.

And we all sort of took turns telling them what to type

and

Angela: [00:12:08] in those meetings before

Jonathan: [00:12:09] yeah. And so they're awful. They're such a waste of

time. Cause

there

Angela: [00:12:14] doing?

Jonathan: [00:12:15] Seven of us on the call. Like we don't all need to be telling one person how to

write word documents.

Angela: [00:12:20] no.

Jonathan: [00:12:21] Um, and you know, just after the pandemic, we did that workshop and we thought, Holy cow, there is a ton of teams that have no idea how to do any of this. Even some of the smaller things like, you know, maybe not using email in the way that people do. And, um, No even just introducing the idea of a, of a Slack channel to discuss things that don't need to happen in email.

It just was kind of revolutionary let alone the idea that let's work through documentation and, or communicate through documentation and try to do as much asynchronously as possible. Um, whereas you know, this, this, some of these teams were. Where yeah, you, you, you start your day at nine, you finish at five and the whole thing's via zoom.

I

Angela: [00:13:05] Oh, and it's also, that's not a way to burn your burn, everyone out. I don't know what is, I think you guys, so, so what I have experienced, uh, working with your team, and there was one meeting in particular that really jumped out at me and I was like, Oh wow, this is it was very obvious as to how natural this remote work was for your team having.

So we're having our weekly zoom call, um, that Chris leads with all the, like the different, uh, topics that,

on the schedule. And we get to, uh, the topic of design and Lindsey, unfortunately couldn't make that meeting. She had let us all know ahead of time and we knew that she couldn't make the meeting.

Um, and then it came to, you know, design, which is, which is, uh, Lindsay's almost line item. And, um, So what happened almost seamlessly was Chris goes, I'm going to start recording this zoom call. So Lindsey can see what we're talking about. And I have a few screenshots that I can share, and we can talk about those and we can at least give her a little bit of feedback.

So that for the next week, you know, she, or when she, you know, is back on, she can, she can take a look. And it was just immediate that the, the recording started and what was really even more neat about the way that you guys did it was, um, we immediately started talking like, she was not like she was there, but she was going to be listening to this.

So it was, um, okay. So Lindsey, when you see this, um, here's what I'm thinking about this and this and this, and over here, blah, blah, blah. And we would, we would talk through it. And then we kind of got through that, that line item and the schedule, and then we just kind of moved on and, but it happened so quickly and there wasn't , it didn't seem like there was a barrier to involving someone that couldn't make it. And, um, So that like almost goes like, in my opinion, that goes like levels up from just remote work to now working with people, um, that might be in different time zones that might be, you know, that don't have to be in person to get everything that they need to get out of that meeting, which shifts our thinking around, um, certainly in person meetings, but then.

Even more so in person, virtual meetings too,

Jonathan: [00:15:27] Yeah. I really think that most meetings don't need to happen. Period full stop. Like there's so there's so much that can be done. Um, asynchronously that the in person meeting needs to like, they need to be flipped in a way. So it needs not, they should definitely not be, um, like a broadcast style meeting where one person gets up and sort of talks to the whole,

Angela: [00:15:51] Like a podcast,

Jonathan: [00:15:52] Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, that's true. Like it, it could just be a podcast, like, just get the mic hit, record, record what you're going to say, send that out and then people can consume it whenever, whenever it makes sense to them, it doesn't have to interrupt their day and they don't have to schedule around it because what's the value in me attending the thing real time.

Angela: [00:16:08] Exactly. And I can consume what I need to consume from that meeting at a time. That makes sense to me. Um, and maybe I'm ready for it.

Jonathan: [00:16:17] Yeah. And, uh, Interesting side note. As, as you become better at listening to podcasts, you tend to start increasing the speed at which you consume them. Um, and when you can do that, then you actually. If, you know, if you had a 10 person meeting, instead of, instead of delivering a meeting for an hour, maybe that's a bit long, but you know, delivering content for an hour consuming 10 hours worth of people's time.

If everyone is able to listen to it at two times, speed that's, You know,

five hours, you cut that in half it's. And some of the tools allow for that. Like we have, um, design, is this. It feels like this, this harder, this harder piece to crack, like we've, we've got some aspects of design that we can do asynchronously. We've got tools that allow us to really seamlessly hand things back and forth, like being able to do, being able to do that meeting that you mentioned, um, kind of relies on the fact that we use the tools that we do, where everything is sort of shared in the open, um, when Lindsey finishes, what she's doing, the moment she's done.

I mean, I can actually go in and watch her do it live. Like if I want to, I can watch her dragging elements around the screen, but when she's done, I can, I can go in and look at it and take, you know, take it to a client meeting or start giving some feedback right away. Um, that's, that's super necessary. Um, but then.

You know, there's still some things about design that are pretty hard asynchronously, and it's really helpful to have this like realtime feedback. Um, but barring that we do lots of video recordings that we send back and forth to each other using Loom. Um, it's one of the tools that we use. Uh that's that can be really helpful.

Um, yeah, it's just a, it's just a shift to how do you, be the least interrupting? The least interruptive is that the word is just, yeah. The least interrupted that you can be because there's so much, so much wasted time

by being interrupted on things.

Angela: [00:18:01] and let's all be honest when, when we're at home and especially for those of us that are parents, we are being interrupted all the time. Anyway.

Jonathan: [00:18:12] Yeah. And I think, I even think despite like, you know, the kids having kids, that's the whole other challenge. Um, but this pandemic on the stuff it's doing to our emotions and our mental health. if you can avoid like a one hour meeting a week, that's just so much better. Right. And if you can, if you can still still get the benefit of, of whatever needs to be discussed at that meeting at your own time.

Um, I think that's, you know, just creates a, a more sustainable pace to this, to this weird life that we have right now

where, you know, I wake up and. Like the last, the last couple of days, I've been very, very tired. Uh, just exhausted and at night just uninterested in doing anything. So I'm not that I do when you work at night, but I can't, you know, if, if somebody were to schedule a meeting, I can't do it.

I can't attend that. Um, but, uh, yeah, I've done this where, you know, Lindsay will have recorded, recorded some loom videos. I'm like, I can't, I can't look at this right now. Like I'm just exhausted, but

Angela: [00:19:10] Yes exactly. That's what I'm talking about with consuming it at a time that you want to consume it. So if I'm going to enter a meeting where let's say I've just had. Uh, like, uh, a gong show of a morning, the kids have gone, like just all this stuff is happening and then I'm expected to jump on a call right away, be active, be, you know, interested, be giving, like giving feedback, et cetera.

Um, it would be way better if that was all recorded. I could then say I can't do this right now, but I can do it in a couple hours after I have, you know, had a coffee. Sat down and maybe just did something for me for, you know, even 10 minutes for Pete sake. And then, and then I'm in a, in a, in a, in a frame of mind where I can consume, um, what is being put in front of me and have way more valuable feedback, be way more engaged, even though it's literally not engaged with the person at the time, but we more engaged in the content of what's being presented to me.

The mental health impacts of the pandemic [00:20:10]

so you touched a little bit on, you know, You're feeling exhausted right now, a lot of people are going through a ton. Um, I think, you know, mental health is, is kind of the second pandemic that is happening alongside this pandemic of COVID.

do you want to talk a little bit about how that's, impacted the way that you guys work in and changes that you've made?

Jonathan: [00:20:33] Yeah, I think, I think it's been, um, unexpectedly, I don't want to say unexpected. Cause I think we could have, we could have expected this if we had thought a little bit about it, but, um, it was more taxing emotionally than I think anyone would have thought. Um, we thought we really thought that because we were, uh, we were geared up for this.

Like we, we switched to remote, like in less than an hour. That's

That's how long it took. Like we just said, okay, the end of the day, that's it. We're not actually, it was, it was less than, less than an hour because no one had an opportunity to do it. Cause it was at the end of the day when we were, because I remember we were, planning on going to an event and I told Paige, I said, we need to be watching the news on this.

And like, here's our plan. If, Bonnie Henry has any kind of indication of an escalated response from the province. That's our trigger. We're not going to any more events. Like we cancel everything we're going to, and we're not going to the office. And so we were watching that and it was like 45 minutes before we were supposed to go to the event and, uh, whatever, the, whatever.

Yeah. That's what it was. And I messaged Paige, this was like, Ok that's it we're work from home now. She's like, okay. And so she said set off an email to the event organizers. And then I sent an email after the team saying we're working remote or work from home as of now. And then the next morning we were just working from home.

So it took us no, no time.

And so we were geared up for the mechanics of working

remotely. Oh yeah. We could just switch instantly. It was not a problem, but what we didn't maybe expect was there is no water cooler talk. There is no going up to your desk. Um, there is no how was your weekend banter that happens when you walk in, in the morning?

Um, and that's, I think something that we all took for granted, um, We, you know, we've tried to replicate that because we have some, you know, we have some teammates that are remote. Um, and so we try to replicate some of that, but you can't replicate all of it. Like it's just, it's impossible. People just are social creatures.

And so having that, that isolation, um, and not just from our team, but from everyone, like no one was no one was interacting with their family. No one was interacting with their friends.

Angela: [00:22:35] Yeah, it was all shut down and it felt like overnight

Jonathan: [00:22:39] Yeah, it was. it was just me and Julia and Zach, and

that's enough.

That is enough for me at the moment, but boy was it hard? Um, and it, and I think everyone, everyone was struggling in their own, in their own ways. And, and, and just sort of struggling with this idea of we all have jobs. We all can work remotely. We haven't been affected financially yet. Um, maybe we don't have the right to feel this way.

Like maybe we don't, we don't have the right to feel like this sucks. And so that kind of weighs into it.

Angela: [00:23:14] the comparative suffering.

Jonathan: [00:23:16] yes.

Angela: [00:23:16] this is what I kind of describe as not allowing you yourself to feel your feels because you feel like somebody else is having is getting it worse.

And by not honoring your own feelings, um, can really be that ways again. On on, on not allowing yourself to, to feel like, to feel like shit about your scenario right now.

Right. And, um, and you're allowed, like we're all allowed to feel like shit about our scenario and yes, there's, there's other people that do certainly they've lost their jobs and they have like, I mean, the list is endless of, you know, people that are struggling.

Through this at a much more difficult pace than we are, but, uh, but also we can only help others once we allow ourselves to feel what we're feeling and be,

Jonathan: [00:24:04] Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, I remember, I remember distinctly, um, you know, sort of prepping, like trying to try to motivate, I think by propping are propping ourselves up as saying like, like it could be way

worse for us. It could be so much worse. Like we are very fortunate in everything we have. And I don't know if I sort of helped create that, um, that, uh, You know that climate to allow for that, that feeling like, okay.

I don't, I don't, I shouldn't be complaining.

Angela: [00:24:35] Uh, there's no playbook for this. Uh, there's no playbook for the pandemic and there's no playbook for, uh, for those of us that are leading others through it too. Um, I think that what you're saying is, is true though. And you're allowed to, you're allowed to feel all those things, you know, I feel bad for this and not, uh, everything.

And so, yeah, there's no playbook and there's no, Right way to kind of handle this is what I've, I've also seen, what a shift to happen? Oh, I think it felt like it happened overnight where all of a sudden, I remember packing up my, my bag that day and saying to Jackie, um, I'm at home now.

And I don't know how long I'm going to be at home now. I now have to be at home. My kids are at home, my husband's at home.

I have to be at home and I just remember packing up all my stuff. And I was like, like, you know, it did only take half an hour. I was literally like, okay, laptop, computer monitor. But then it was just, that was the end for, for, um, for four months. And then, you know, we've slowly, I mean, it's, we have a small team, but slowly getting back to kind of working together ish, but, uh, it was tough.

It was a tough time. Still is you're right.

Still trying to build a product [00:25:54]

And in that time, so I guess maybe what I want to daylight from all of this too. Is March is when we kind of like pandemic hit, well, BC, for sure. In mid-March we shut her down and, uh, your team and my team continued to build Clinnect because you guys had these tools in place.

These, um, I don't want to call them policies and protocols, but it was, it was very much like the culture of how you worked still allowed us to launch a product. You guys still built a product for it during a pandemic, all working remotely. And I think the lessons that you guys have learned has been amazing and tremendous.

And so now I'm going to plug your blog posts is Jonathan wrote a blog post about this and, uh, even though like, I work with you guys all the time, there was still stuff in it that I was like, Ooh, that's a good nugget. So if anybody's looking for just like really good nuggets around working remotely, we'll link the podcast or the blog and in the show notes for the podcast.

Jonathan: [00:27:09] Yeah. Thank you. We've we've gotten some really fun feedback from that.

Uh, yeah. Yeah. Some people have specifically messaged me and saying like, thank you for sharing this. This is, this was really good. Um, it, it, we're pretty, I'm pretty proud of this. I mean, Kaileen wrote most of it.

Uh, yeah. Uh, we did, we did collaborate on it. Um, but I'd say she's the one that made it have the, um, human, the deeply human feel to it. Not that it wasn't human to begin with, but, um, yeah. Uh, yeah, she, she brought just this extra piece, extra bit of heart to it that, uh, I'm really proud of her for doing,

um, And yeah, but people like people have commented and said like this is really nice.

Like, this has been really helpful. Um, and then some other folks, um, I wouldn't say who, but, um, so someone has someone has printed it off and it has it at their desk looks at it occasionally, which I find just so heartwarming.

Um, and they, they want to implement some of these things. They kind of work in a, in a, an environment that.

Might make this like really challenging, just cause they're not

geared up to work. Yeah.

it's so wonderful to hear that. And um, yeah. It's like, we've got, this is just like scratching the surface. Like we've got so many more, tools at our disposal. This is, this is more around how do we, how do we just not lose ourselves too much?

Um, and what are the things, what are some of the things that we've tried to do? Um, but every team is different and every team needs to kinda figure out what's gonna work.

Angela: [00:28:40] exactly.

Outro [00:28:44] 

Thanks for listening to Fixing Faxes, building a digital health startup. I'm Angela Hapke. And my cohost is Jonathan Bowers .Music by Andrew Codeman. Follow us on Twitter @FixingFaxes. You can find us wherever you like to listen to podcasts.

And please do us a favor and tell a friend. Thanks for listening.

Jonathan: [00:29:05] uh,

Julie's mom made a pear pear, craisin crisp or cobbler. That was really nice.

Angela: [00:29:12] it is cobbler time.

Jonathan: [00:29:14] Oh, I love cobblers.

I love cobblers. I don't love fall because it represents the switch from summer to winter. And I prefer summer. I like, I like the sun.

Angela: [00:29:24] Oh, no, I don't think we can ha I don't think we can hang out anymore. Now.

I am a hundred percent shoulder season.

Jonathan: [00:29:32] Oh, no, no, no, no shoulder seasons. They can just curl up and die. Like, yeah. It's wet and useless time.

Like there's the only thing that's great about it is all the food.

Angela: [00:29:44] The fall food is like the best.

Nope. Fall. Fall is the best.

Jonathan: [00:29:53] Yeah.

Angela: [00:29:53] I don't think we can. We can hang out anymore now.

That's it. This is the end of fixing faxes. We are done. Jonathan is a summer person. I am a fall person. We can no longer be friends.