Show Notes

To wrap the first season of Fixing Faxes Jonathan and Angela continue part 2 of listener questions. Diving into favourite failures, scary stories, emotional rollercoasters, and what we are reading/watching/listening to right now. Next season starts in late January 2021!

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Angela: [00:00:00] Kyla has now texted me and wrote on my Facebook and every, Oh my God.

Jonathan: [00:00:06] Yeah, just toss it to the bottom.

Angela: [00:00:08] Oh my goodness. Are you reading this? Are you reading what she's Oh my God. Who.

She wrote that all these questions, then she wrote all of those are stolen from great interviewers, but are some of my faves for job interviews and icebreakers.

Jonathan: [00:00:27] Oh, okay. Job interview questions. My goodness.

Angela: [00:00:31] She's an HR specialist. That's why.

Intro [00:00:33]

Jonathan: [00:00:35] You're listening to Fixing Faxes a podcast on the journey of building a digital health startup with your hosts, myself, Jonathan Bowers.

Angela: [00:00:43] And I'm Angela Hapke. So we're doing take two, not take two, part two, not take two part, two of listener questions. Now we're going to get in, like, we're going to get into some deep stuff

Jonathan: [00:01:02] Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Oh, wait, this one's from you.

Angela: [00:01:10] We'll put that at the end. Well, this is okay. Honestly, we weren't getting a lot of questions, so I decided that I was going to throw some in task.

You,

Angela, on entertainment [00:01:21] 

well, let's start with it then. Mine are just fun. Mine are just silly fun questions. I just wanted to know Jonathan, who are you listening to right now?

Jonathan: [00:01:31] Uh, I'm listening to a lot of Raffi and, uh, artists by the name of Casper Baby Pants.

Angela: [00:01:38] no, this is like some Baby Beluga going on in your

Jonathan: [00:01:43] Yeah, We do some baby beluga. Casper Baby Pants is nice though. He's got a, he's got an album where he covers a bunch of Beatles songs.

Angela: [00:01:50] that's fun.

Jonathan: [00:01:51] Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Uh,

Angela: [00:01:52] weird.

Jonathan: [00:01:55] Yeah.

Angela: [00:01:56] Okay. Um, okay. On our way to school, is usually when they listened to most of the music and I take Alex to school and she is very obsessed with the Tones and I right now, so like dance monkey, never seen the rain, lots of those. then I drop her off and turn on my own music and Oh, my musical taste has a far range, but today it was Weezer on the way home.

So, yep. but I am more like, uh, like I like to have a lot of background music going on and it's usually very like coffee hose, acoustic chill, keeps my, like me. It can be from vibrating too high. Uh, okay. What's the last book or are you reading a current book?

Jonathan: [00:02:47] I am. So I'm not sure why this is, but I feel like I am, uh, just boring, boring to answer these questions. I'm terrible at reading books because I only read them before bed and I immediately fall asleep.

Angela: [00:03:04] too. This is why it

Jonathan: [00:03:05] I've. so I have, because it was taking forever to get through books. I decided to just not go back and try and reread what I was missing, like what I had fallen asleep too.

So I just continue to plow forward. And so I've gotten through entire books without knowing who, who anyone is or what the main plot was. I just have read all the words. so currently I am reading, Dune, Because I'm like, I I'm excited about the new movie, Dune. I've never read the book, so I'm reading Dune.

but, but reading it before bed, so I actually don't know what's happening. yeah.

Angela: [00:03:39] That's hilarious. I feel that very, yeah, I am right there on that level with you.

Jonathan: [00:03:45] Yeah. I think the last book that I read that I actually completed and was able to. Uh, I don't, I, I'm not sure it's because it takes so long. Like I read one page a night and then I'm out.

Angela: [00:03:57] That's me too. And yes. Okay. I'm so glad that you're one of those people too, because like, like Jackie at work, she reads a whole book a day. Like she can just plow through a book.

Jonathan: [00:04:08] What does she read? Is she the type of person that if you had an office to go to and have lunch, she would read a book at lunch. I didn't notice that of her,

Angela: [00:04:19] I don't think so. No, I think it's like a, it's like an at home thing that she,

Jonathan: [00:04:24] Wow. I'm a little jealous of that also. Not because that just seems like you'd run out of stuff really fast, but she's maybe just always has a book on the go.

Angela: [00:04:32] maybe, I think the last book that I read a lot of, Books too, Alex she's into chapter books. we are on the Taya Stilton series, but I will say, parents out there, if you have kids that are at that reading age, two of the best books that we have read recently, or the One and Only Ivan, which was just recently made into a Disney movie.

And number two, I cannot recommend this book enough is Wild Robot.

Jonathan: [00:05:01] Oh, cool.

Angela: [00:05:02] amazing. And there's now a second books, Wild Robot Escapes go out and get these books are incredible. Um, yeah. Okay.

Jonathan: [00:05:14] your independent bookstore.

Angela: [00:05:15] From your independent bookstore, please. Second hand too. what's your favorite TV show currently?

Jonathan: [00:05:21] Oh, I am really enjoying His Dark Materials.

Angela: [00:05:26] I don't even know this one.

Jonathan: [00:05:27] It's the book, the books I've read the, have I read the books I've listened to? No, I have read the books and listened to the audio books. The audio books are amazing. So the Golden Compass you'd recognize the golden compass. So that's, that's that?

I think there are three books, trio trilogy of books. so HBO and BBC have a, high production TV. Show, they have one season out already. That was last year, the year before, and now it's running season two and it's, I just, I really enjoy it. The audio books are fantastic. Probably my, my friend, Derek, who he's, he that's all he does is like he's plugged in and listened to audio books all the time.

He has listened to that book. Dozens of times. It's really good. I agree. It's it's one of the better, it's one of the better books. I like it better than the Harry Potter audio books. it's, it's just fantastic and lots of fun, commentary on religion and, state and stuff. So

Angela: [00:06:20] Kate. Cool. I'm in

Jonathan: [00:06:21] the.

Yeah, I would go, yeah, go listen to the audio book and then watch the first season and then listen to them all and then continue watching the rest of it. It's great. I love it. And it's very, I don't know what it is. I like those stories when it starts to turn to winter.

Yeah. That's when I would listen to the audio book is like around this time of year.

Angela: [00:06:40] Oh, like it's

Jonathan: [00:06:41] that.

Angela: [00:06:42] thing for you. Oh, I love that.

Jonathan: [00:06:43] is, but I mean, at the season two has nothing to do with winter season one that takes place a lot in like the cold

Angela: [00:06:49] Okay. Okay.

Jonathan: [00:06:50] season two, doesn't it doesn't do that. So at the second book.

Angela: [00:06:54] Okay. Okay. I'm just going to plug a Ted Lasso on Apple+. Oh, I am now on round two of watching it again.

Jonathan: [00:07:04] Just restarted. So I made it through almost, and then decided not to watch it with

Angela: [00:07:09] Right. Brad. And I watched the whole first season together. We are now watching the whole first season again, because the second season is going to be released until August next year.

I believe Jason Sudeikis was saying any way. I have never rewatched a TV series ever. First one to do it with it is amazing. People. Go

Jonathan: [00:07:32] it's so it's so great. It's so it's funny. And in a way that isn't harmful to anyone.

Angela: [00:07:39] At all. It's so gentle. It's so funny. It's so kind. It's so empowering. It's like, Oh, we love it. Okay.

Jonathan: [00:07:49] to Ted lasso in my life.

Angela: [00:07:51] Well, it's a vibe like he's a vibe.

Jonathan: [00:07:54] yeah, yeah, yeah.

Angela: [00:07:56] Well, we all want, we all want to Ted Lasso in our life. there, like, I don't know if that person actually fully completely exists.

Angela, on being scared [00:08:06]

Jonathan, what is the scariest thing you've ever

Jonathan: [00:08:12] this is very clear for me to answer, but it's not what I like. Um, cause it's not one I chose for myself, Zach, being born. And having, the NICU nurses, appear through the walls.

Uh, yeah, it was amazing. It was amazing. Like I could, I, part of me was, was like, okay, this is the scariest thing that's happening to me ever.

But also the other part of it is like, wow, this is an amazing, this is an amazing thing that's happening right now because it just in a snap of a finger when the, uh, the doctor said, yeah, let's call the NICU in. There was nine nurses in the room. Like out of nowhere plus equipment, and they're just, they all had their jobs and they were just waiting for Zach to come out and then be handed off.

And it was, it was, it was amazing. It was, but it was like the scariest, the scariest thing that I've ever experienced.

Angela: [00:09:02] your PTSD and me right now, but yeah, I know. It's okay. yeah, I think for me, very, very similar Alex was the same way when she was born, they checked her O2 stats and called a code pink. And there was before I knew it, there was 10 people in that room with me and it was the scariest thing. So I worked in the hospital at that time when I gave birth to Alex.

And there's three years between Alex and Nora. And I went back to work obviously, and was working at the hospital. And my, my boss, Tracy had said, Oh, we need to pop up to labor and delivery because we're doing a project or something. I'm going to show you something. We walked up and it got to the doors.

And I looked here and I was like, yeah, I can't go in. And she was like, what do you mean? And I was like, I can't go back in there. I will, I will. I just wasn't ready for what hit me at these doors. And I did go back later that week after I had prepped myself. but yeah, scariest thing,

Jonathan: [00:10:05] What would be the scariest thing you've chosen,

do?

Angela: [00:10:09] basically did choose to have a child. Um, I didn't choose that delivery. It's the scariest thing I've ever chosen to, probably a couple of things. And they're probably like, there's a couple of things. It would be after my third year of university, I decided that I was going to, just go to Lake Louise for the summer, not knowing anybody and just.

Kind of change, mix things up. And that was scary. I knew nobody and I was going to a place that was out in the middle of nowhere and I was going to spend the whole summer there. And that was really, really scary for me. I chose to do that. And then I have to say, I'm doing this doing, Central Referral Solutions.

Jonathan: [00:10:53] Cool. That's awesome. Yeah. the one thing that comes to mind is a so I'm a diver, I'm a scuba diver. and we went, night diving one time and went for one of our deeper dives. And

I got super narced

Angela: [00:11:08] I don't know what that means.

Jonathan: [00:11:09] Uh, nitrogen narcosis it's they don't know exactly what it is, but, you basically get extremely loopy.

people, people die, like they just, they start swimming straight down because they don't know what they're doing. So I got, super duper narced, uh, at like 130 feet, and, managed to signal my buddy and like flash at them and like do a little loopy sign on your head, which means I'm narced. and.

Could manage to like think, but couldn't control my body in a good way. Like my, my regulator kept popping out of my mouth, so I would like stop. Yeah. Training was kicking in. I was like, okay, how deep am I? 130 feet feeling pretty. Narked we'll put the, put the breathing apparatus back in my mouth.

check how much air I have left. Okay. I'm like half tank. Okay. We'll put the breathing apparatus back in my mouth and then, okay. Now I've gotta control my ascent up. because my buddy was like, Nearby, but it was like, I was trying to self rescue, and, uh, managed to get up safely and, uh, even managed to do a safety stop.

And when I surfaced, the moment I got up and inflated by BCD, that was it. I was out of air. Yeah, it was super scary. I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought I might die. but was it, but it's the weirdest experience because I could think clearly, but I couldn't, I couldn't behave properly. Like I wasn't, my body wasn't wasn't reacting the way it, the way it should.

and then I just had a massive headache afterwards, uh, which was like, yeah. So that's the scariest scariest thing I kind of chose to do, but yeah.

Angela: [00:12:47] Well, let's take some more questions now.

Jackie, on being a founder [00:12:53]

Jonathan: [00:12:53] Jackie Jackie asks, what's your favorite part of being a small business startup owner or founder?

Angela: [00:13:00] I think for me, it's easy. It's the F it's. Uh, it's not easy. No, that's not what I meant to say. the favorite part, choosing a favorite it's easy. It is being incharge of my own schedule, being flexible for my family. and just feeling like I have ownership over what I'm doing yet. The flexibility to kind of. Make sure all the other, the other things in my life aren't totally falling. And I, I love, I love that. I have never had that when I've worked for like a bigger organization or a company before. And I, I love it. I love it.

Jonathan: [00:13:44] we actually chatted about this, yesterday or the day before. Cause we were at, somebody asked us this. well kind of, anyways, my answer is, being able to work with exactly the people that I want to work with. Um, and like all of the things that you said, but also trying to provide that for the people on my team as well.

So like having that freedom, having that flexibility, working with the people that you want to work with. it's yeah. Coming, coming in. Not that I go in, but like coming to work has never, ever

Angela: [00:14:15] No, no, I don't ever, I don't ever wake up in the morning and go, Oh, I have to go do that ever. which is so lovely.

Jonathan: [00:14:25] yeah. Thank you, Jackie. That was a great question.

Pam, on hindsight [00:14:27] 

Okay. Pam asks, is there anything you would change knowing what you know now regarding your business?

Angela: [00:14:35] I like how she put in, in, in bracket regarding your business. And it was like, Oh, Pam, I have known Pam since I was a baby. She's my mom's best friend. and she, she's a, she's a lovely, lovely lady. Love her. is there anything I would change knowing what you know now. Where would you like me to start?

Wow. Uh, so many things, so many things. I think there's a lot of things I wouldn't change. we've talked a little bit about that, like team. I think I have like my gosh, your team, my team, best ever wouldn't change any of that. what would I change knowing? I know now. I have to think about this a little bit.

Jonathan: [00:15:19] I would change very little.

Angela: [00:15:21] Well, Lottie, freaking duh.

Jonathan: [00:15:25] I mean, I, I think that there's, there's even in all of the mistakes, it just feels like it's just shaped the way we are and I like where we are. And so to go back and try and monkey with that feels like, you know, wishing for more wishes, kind of, like,

Angela: [00:15:42] Okay. I like that. I could say the same thing too. That's true. I think the only thing would be, I would, I would, have done more as a team in person pre COVID. Had I known what the hell I knew now, like now that COVID is headed what we're doing now. I think I would have, I would have sauvored that in-person team work a little bit more.

Kendra, on rollercoasters [00:16:05] 

Oh, ms. Kendra Hapke. It's my sister. How do you avoid getting overwhelmed with the ups and downs of the financial risk of starting your own company?

Jonathan: [00:16:20] I don't.

Angela: [00:16:23] I don't either. I don't avoid getting overwhelmed. I think, I think actually as humans, we avoid a lot of these, these types of feelings, like being overwhelmed or being, extreme, extremely happy, extremely sad. we avoid disappointment. We evoke void over whelming. I've tried not to avoid those anymore and.

Because there are massive lessons to be learned with the ups and the downs. It has been a roller coaster owning your own company. A startup, a tech startup is a freaking roller coaster. I can go from one minute being like, this is the best thing ever to the two minutes later going, I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

And, there's something to just feeling all the feels, you know, me. I love

Jonathan: [00:17:14] Yeah. Uh, yeah, I don't, I don't know that I guess trying to put, put yourself in a situation where the financial risk isn't as, as risky, right? Like if you can save up,

Angela: [00:17:29] Even that sounds a little bit boring. I know that sounds crazy. I know yet. Yes. Like being able to maybe be on your second startup or something like that with a little bit of money in the bank. Oh yeah. That'd be amazing. But you only get there by

Jonathan: [00:17:45] Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. I don't know. just be careful and try not to have a panic attack when you're driving home from Kelowna, outside of Falklands.

Angela: [00:17:57] yeah, find a good therapist. They help a lot with those. Said panic attacks. We should go into that one day. Jonathan that's we should talk about, talk about being vulnerable and talking about mental health. I think mental health as a founder is like, we need to all talk about that more and more and more. So our fellow founders don't feel alone.

Kendra also asked if you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice before you started up your company, what would it be? You know what mine would be

Jonathan: [00:18:34] No. Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. Start, start sooner. And maybe. Ship a little sooner to the, one of the things that I've let the, the phrases that I really like that I've learned, over the years is, the ship is very safe in the Harbor, but that's not what it was designed to do.

Angela: [00:18:56] was designed to do.

Jonathan: [00:18:57] so yeah, start sooner.

Absolutely. Even, even little things like just creating those, creating that, that habit. Is is really helpful. Like even if, even if it's just like, just slowly picking away at it, like all that stuff kind of adds up.

Angela: [00:19:13] Yes, it does.

Kyla, with many questions [00:19:16] 

Kyla Lawsen. She sent a PA um, multitude of questions. I love this woman. She is so wonderful, so inspiring, so amazing. And she has so many questions.

Jonathan: [00:19:33] She has asked for an entire episode

Angela: [00:19:35] has asked for a full episode on culture. Kyla, you might get your wish,

Jonathan: [00:19:43] not today. Let's not do an entire episode of

Angela: [00:19:45] Nope. Nope.

Jonathan: [00:19:47] let's do it. I think we should.

Angela: [00:19:49] Love to do that. So we're going to save a few of Kyla's questions for that episode that we're going to do on culture.

I think that would be, amazing. She's asking some great questions here, so I'll go. What kind of skip down? she asked, how do you balance the day-to-day grind with thinking about what's next one year, three years, et cetera, down the road.

Jonathan: [00:20:12] That's a good

Angela: [00:20:13] That's a great question.

If somebody could answer that for me, that would be wonderful.

Jonathan: [00:20:18] what's the, what's the cheat sheet for this? How do, how do you do this?

Angela: [00:20:22] I know for me, especially recently, so we are kind of we're closing in on what I kind of call like year one of Clinnect, because it was about January, February that we started, dev efforts on Clinnect. And I'm finding this time as a very. reflective time. And so I find majority of my day is the day to day stuff.

I'm worrying about operations and things like that, making sure my team is well supported, et cetera. I've actually had to start carving out time. To figure out what is Clinnect look like in the next one year, three years, et cetera. I'm not doing a very good job at carving out that time is what I found.

Um, and I think I need to, more, I think the problem is I am carving out pieces of time, whereas I should just now carve out days. Of time and, normal in, in non COVID times, I actually probably would have just gone away for like a few days to, you know, like retreat, like, go away to figure this out.

And so now I'm trying to figure out how do I emulate that without going away? So stay tuned, Kyla. I don't know how to balance this right now.

Jonathan: [00:21:45] Yeah. Um, I, the same, my answer's the same, although I don't, I don't really like that, like three years down the road, because that feels like it's just too far in the future. And there's so many things that could change between now and then that I don't really think that they'll think about the three years down the road that much.

Angela: [00:22:01] No, it was talking to somebody and they talked about their five-year goal. And I was like, Oh my gosh, should I get myself one of those, like a five-year goal?

Jonathan: [00:22:09] Yeah. Just go down to the five-year goal store, buy one off the shelf and yeah.

Angela: [00:22:12] that one looks good. I'll take that. she also asks, what do you think will be the biggest scaling hurdles for Clinnect? The product is built to scale. We have built it too. Be scalable. It is currently scalable. What's our biggest hurdle for expanding Clinnect, or target market is finicky and to put it nicely. and it's, it's a lot of marketing effort. And we wanted a product to be fully scalable, but also one that I wanted, I think a couple episodes I go, I said, with these few new features, I would scream Clinnect from the rooftop and I'm, and we're there.

We're very close to that now. And so then the next thing is screaming it from the rooftop. but I think that's going to be, it's gonna be a tough thing to do when we can't go into doctor's offices and. Put a face to Clinnect and show them how it works. So we're going to have to be creative.

Okay. Here's a good one. This is for you,

Kyla interviews Angela and Jonathan for a job [00:23:21]

Jonathan: [00:23:21] Oh, now I see these are, these are, these are interview questions. Got it. I'm reading them

Angela: [00:23:26] right? What's something that you believe that very few people agree with you on.

Jonathan: [00:23:33] Oh my goodness. Um, well Vegemite is a delicious, delicious breakfast treat. Just put it on your toast. Uh, that's the one thing, um,

Angela: [00:23:49] Accurately answered.

Jonathan: [00:23:51] Um, I don't, I don't know. that's hard. That's hard to answer without really

thinking

Angela: [00:23:56] about

Jonathan: [00:23:56] Yeah. Like I would need a lot more time, but definitely, definitely like Vegemite. Like I like Vegemite. I think it's great.

Angela: [00:24:04] no, it's so gross.

Jonathan: [00:24:08] I don't know how to answer that. Like, I'm not even sure that that's a fair question to ask someone on an interview because it sort of sets them up to fail a little bit in that because you just gonna make something up.

Angela: [00:24:18] Oh, interesting. Okay. I think. Well, as you know me, I think you should feel all the feels like. I think you should like be okay with getting really excited about something that may not work out and feel that disappointment. I think there's a lot of people out there that do not agree with that. I hear so many people say I don't want to get too excited because I don't want to be disappointed. And I'm like, what? Now you're now you're denying yourself. The excitement. For fear of disappointment.

Jonathan: [00:24:54] I agree. I'm with you on that. See, that's the thing is I don't feel like I don't feel like my opinions are that, that, you know, uh, out in left field to, to other

Angela: [00:25:04] maybe, maybe that's not my field. Maybe I just,

Jonathan: [00:25:08] Oh my God, these questions are hard. What's your favorite failure? What's your favorite failure?

Angela: [00:25:13] my favorite

Jonathan: [00:25:14] Failure or

I don't know. I can only think of just failures that are funny.

Angela: [00:25:25] Did you learn

Jonathan: [00:25:27] Oh yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So once I, so one of my first, one of my first tech jobs, Was for a company that produced software for other large companies. And, uh, I was in charge of making this big financial report and this like automated report and I was testing it and I put poop. I put poop in the, in the financial report.

just cause I was like testing to see that something was working and I just put the word poop in there and um, we ended up shipping it off. And so, so this organization that, that like, it was, uh, it was, uh, like a $400 million organization ran their financial reports and the CFO's like, okay, my, my. My, my, my financial report says poop on every page and like all the lines.

And I came back, I was like, Oh shoot. I put that in. So the lesson there that I've learned, which I like try to stick to all the time is never use swear words or like things like that in, in try to always use like real, real words, real language. not even fake language, like just stick with real stuff.

Angela: [00:26:33] my dream. My favorite failure doesn't have to be mine. Oh, Jonathan. That's fantastic. I love that story.

Jonathan: [00:26:44] It wasn't harmful. Like it was really, it was really only, only one person that saw it, but it was, it was the biggest customer that we had

Angela: [00:26:55] Oh, that's fantastic. Oh, I love that. Oh, that can't be answered any better than that. Oh, what's some bad advice you have received along the way. Oh, I got one. Cause it wasn't that long ago. I remember when the idea for Clinnect first was born and I was told. Don't worry. And this was from like a mentor.

Don't worry. If you create a product that works really well, What the hell was this person thinking? No, no, the government will not buy it from you.

Jonathan: [00:27:44] that also kind of ignores the, like creating a product that works part.

Angela: [00:27:50] it was bad, just really bad. Like, and I really actually remember walking out of that meeting, go meeting, going. I don't think that was very good advice. Okay. My gut was right. That was bad advice.

Jonathan: [00:28:08] Oh, I like this question. You have a gigantic billboard that everyone in the world can see. What does it say? Wear a mask.

Wear a

Angela: [00:28:25] Oh yeah. And wear a mask. Ask me about Clinnect check out clinic, but

Jonathan: [00:28:34] I think, I think mine, I think mine would, would, would probably say, I don't know, like just, you know, just, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Just wear a mask. I want to get all philosophical, but I don't. I just, I wanted by that billboard, I want that billboard to exist. where I'm asking, just be a little gentler with the other humans out here.

Cause just calm the fuck down.

Angela: [00:28:57] the biggest takeaway I have. well, my husband and I both have from Ted lasso is curiosity over

judgment

Jonathan: [00:29:08] Yeah, I like that. That is that from a later episode, I must not have watched that yet.

Angela: [00:29:13] Maybe.

Jonathan: [00:29:14] Yeah.

Angela: [00:29:15] Yeah. Or it's just something very, very small, but like jumped out at my husband and I, I don't know, but we use that with each other all the time. If I'm getting like, like my little judgy hat on Brad will always go curiosity

over judgment, Angela. Oh, it's such a good one because then I'm like, right.

Damn it. Of course

it does. Good. Okay. We have reached the

End of Season 1, talk to you in 2021! [00:29:42]

Jonathan: [00:29:42] We've reached the end. We've reached the end. So we are going to take a break. So this we're going to consider this the end of season one of Fixing Faxes. We're going to take a break, tell sometime in the new year, probably January late January or so.

we both want to spend a little bit less time recording and editing and thinking about things. and, uh, but we will come back in

Angela: [00:30:06] exactly. It has been fun and we will be in your ears, Oh my gosh.